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AIDS pioneer new star witness


February 06, 2007 02:15am

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ONE of the scientists who discovered AIDS will give evidence in the Supreme Court against self-professed experts who believe the disease does not exist.

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Professor Robert Gallo has agreed to provide video evidence to rebut claims by two Perth researchers, Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos and Dr Valendar Turner, that the HIV virus does not exist and cannot be sexually transmitted.

Professor Gallo will replace prominent scientist Professor Gustav Nossal as a key prosecution witness in an appeal by a former Port Pirie man, Andre Parenzee, 35, against his conviction for knowingly having unprotected sex while he was HIV-positive.

Prosecutor Sandi McDonald will tomorrow question Professor Gallo over his work in the 1980s which led to the identification of the HIV virus.

Professor Gallo and a French virologist, Dr Luc Montagnier, clashed when both claimed they had discovered the virus before finally agreeing in the late 1990s to share the credit.

The use of Professor Gallo as an expert witness is part of a concerted attempt by the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions to refute claims made by Mrs Papadopulos-Eleopulos and Dr Turner during earlier hearings.

The attack on the pair's credibility continued yesterday when a leading HIV physicist joined other experts in rejecting their controversial theory.

Associate Professor Elizabeth Dax told the Supreme Court there was no doubt in her mind that HIV existed.

An HIV researcher for 20 years, Professor Dax said it was "a travesty, quite frankly, to say it doesn't exist".

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Latest Comments:

I am Spanish journalist. Gallo and Vih theory is a fraud, but Papadoupolus also. She is a fanatic, with almost no publications, she is no virologist, she is teacher in biophysics , and Turner doctor in Hospital Urgencies.The never have made their owns empirical studies. I made them simple questions and showed false VIH pics and the were unable to answer anything or detect them. Perth Group is as Hoax as Fauci, Gallo and all the scientists of the aids establishment. Papadopulos is a fundamentalist to whom nobody pay attention.

Posted by: Luis Carlos campos of Spain 6:47am February 25, 2007

In Science Fictions (2002) Pulitzer award Journalist John Crewdson demostrated with lots of documents tha tRobert Gallo is a liar, a ganster and fraud (and his team Popovic, Sarin, Sargandharan, ..)

Posted by: omkara of eeuu 6:40am February 25, 2007

A break down of the immune system is hardly a surprising phenomenon in a population group that either indulges indiscriminantly in multiple drugs and multiple ejaculations (gay bath house) or has been subjected for centuries to malnutrition and foul water, followed by decades of 'experimental' drugs dispensed in a culture of 'everything western is wonderful' (Africa). Why look for a virus when the surprising thing is that this break down didn't happen earlier? And it remains, in spite of Bennet and others. No-one's isolated the virus. No-one can test for it. And the drugs given to those 'who have it' themselvesin the immune system. Meantime, there's money to be made selling tests and drugs, morality bandwagons to be jumped on, philanthropy bandwagons to be jumped on...... and an awful lot of face to be lost should it emerge that we've all been scammed. And get your reporting straight. Not even the Perth Group has denied the existence of a massive worldwide breakdown in immune systems....

Posted by: Alan Huyshe of Bath UK 11:10pm February 11, 2007

There are in fact many, many open scientific questions to the "HIV causes Aids" theory and it is about time, that this debate gets more public attention. As far as i can understand: "HIV" is NOT a micro-organism that replicates itself, but could be understood more as minute particles of "oxidating bodycells" or "loose body tissue". Furtheron there are valid concerns over the test-methods aplied. These questions should be researched and discussed in detail and then be considered in this legal case as well as with future publications. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The view of The Perth Group is that the HIV/AIDS experts have not proven: 1. The existence of a unique, exogenously acquired retrovirus, HIV. 2. The "HIV" antibody tests are specific for "HIV" infection. 3. The HIV theory of AIDS, that is, that HIV causes acquired immune deficiency (destruction of T4 lymphocytes=AID) or that AID leads to the development of the clinical syndrome AIDS. 4. The "HIV genome", (RNA or DNA) originates in a unique, exogenously acquired infectious retroviral particle. 5. HIV/AIDS is infectious, either by blood, blood products or sexual intercourse. 6. Mother to child transmission of a retrovirus HIV or its inhibition with AZT or nevirapine. The Perth Group has argued: 1. The impossibility of haemophiliacs acquiring HIV following factor VIII infusions. 2. That AIDS and all the phenomena inferred as "HIV" are induced by changes in cellular redox brought about by the oxidative nature of substances and exposures common to all the AIDS risk groups and to the cells used in the "culture" and "isolation" of "HIV". 3. That AIDS will not spread outside the original risk groups. 4. That the cessation of exposure to oxidants and/or use of anti-oxidants will improve the outcome of AIDS patients. 5. That the pharmacological data prove AZT cannot kill "HIV" and AZT is toxic to all cells and may cause some cases of AIDS. source >> http://www.theperthgroup.com/whatargued.html

Posted by: Hugo Webber of Germany 6:57pm February 10, 2007

Robert Gallo ? The same "expert" that was caught commiting fraud and theft at the NIH, and was punished for scientific misconduct ? This story is most itneresting because of all the history and facts left out and glossed over. Robert Gallo is a crook, a liar, and a fraud. Why should anybody trust this man ?

Posted by: Todd Phillips of 7:05am February 08, 2007

For those who wish to read what these exchanges are that Mr. Bennett refers to, they can go to http://www.rethinking.org/bmj/BMJ-Date-Descending.html This is from the British Medical Journal website, a debate that happened over the course of several years. Decide for yourselves, don't just take Mr. Bennett's word for it because he claims to have corrected the Perth Group. Judge for yourselves.

Posted by: Christopher Tyler of Seattle 4:05am February 08, 2007

Dr Robert Gallo is not & has never been a Professor of anything. There is nothing in any literature on the Net which would suggest he is! If the NIH had done a better job of the investigation into his so called discovery and announcement of HIV, he may not even be a doctor. He stole the virus from Luc Montagnier which he claimed as his own. Luc Montagnier is on public record as saying his virus is probably only a co-factor to AIDS. "His discovery of HIV was met with some controversy when American scientist Robert Gallo claimed he discovered HIV. But in 1992 the scientific community agreed it was Montagnier that should be credited with the discovery." It was only in 1987 when the US President and the French PM stepped in, that a nasty legal battle was avoided. He now works for his own company, which no doubt means more money for Dr.Gallo. There is no proof that HIV causes AIDS only a lot of statistical mumbo jumbo, which is not science.

Posted by: Keith Styles of Melbourne Australia 3:33am February 08, 2007

Why does anyone pay any attention to him at all? That┬┐s just what he is probably asking himself. He was spurned at the last AIDS conference boondoggle in Toronto and now ┬┐expert┬┐ witnesses for the prosecution are declaring under questioning by the defense attorney that his and Montagnier┬┐s efforts to isolate and purify a pathogenic virus which came to known as HIV, the supposed sole cause of AIDS, to be irrelevant. He probably looks at this as an opportunity to become ┬┐relevant┬┐ again, the egomaniac that he is. It will be interesting indeed to discover what he has to say about what he and his assistant Igor, I mean, Popovic invented out of their test tube soup, A.K.A. Gallo┬┐s Goop, and declared HIV, the so-called scourge of all time.

Posted by: Eugene Moreau of Montreal, Canada 3:00am February 08, 2007

Nick, you cannot deduct a fact from supposed mechanisms, especially if it is about five different mechanisms. How does the science work? You have to have at first the proof of the cause and effect relationship before proposing a mechanism. So, the chemists discovered at first experimentally the Wittig reaction, then formulated diverse mechanisms (which nobody is moreover satisfactory at the moment). But the Wittig reaction, it, exists well. And we know that by mixing a phosphorus ylide with an aldehyde, we obtain an alkene. On the other hand, we have never verified that HIV provoked AIDS, or at least, if we follow the debate of Ad├ęlaide's lawsuit, we realize that it is still only about a supposition stemming from the clinic : the disease seems to be infectious, and thus he can involve only a virus.

Posted by: Jean of France 10:44pm February 07, 2007

I┬┐ve not long finished doing a thorough background search on the Esteemed Dr.Robert Gallo, you know, the guy who invented the ┬┐AIDS┬┐ virus. Well, you don┬┐t have to look very far to realize that the Esteemed Dr. Gallo is not quite as Esteemed as the orthodox medical world would have us all believe. A simple Google search will reveal all to those who seek truth in medical science. On the surface, the Perth Groups views on ┬┐HIV┬┐, may seem a little slightly left of centre field, however, nobody can accuse them of being liars, frauds and cheats, which is more then that can be said of the other Esteemed specialist mentioned above. Saidrick Mackay Queensland.

Posted by: Saidrick Eriksen of Mackay Queensland 7:20pm February 07, 2007

It has already been pointed out,..Dr.Robert Gallo did not say HIV is the cause of AIDS. What he said was: HIV is the PROBABLE cause. He never did prove it and research has not proven it since to my satisfaction. It is true, there is considerable STATISTICAL data which suggests there may be a link, but it's all Co-Related Statistical data and we all know what statisticians can do with figures. In fact Mark Twain observed a long time ago.. "There are ..Lies, damn lies and statistics. I for one think he got it right, so many years ago. So far all the high flying experts have not provided sufficient scientific proof that HIV is the cause of AIDS. All the HIV tests are inaccurate and only serve to make their inventors & drug companies rich. ELIZA is inaccurate, Western Blot is also inaccurate and believe it or not is interpreted 11 different way worldwide. That's NOT science. A person can be HIV POZ in Australia and NEG in the USA, It's so inaccurate and dependent on interpretation, a person can be tested POZ on one side of the USA and NEG on the other side of the continent and medicine trusts these tests to declare a person HIV POZ and ruin their lives. The PCR test which may be able to determine a persons HIV status, if it exists at all, can not prove it cause AIDS. The inventor, Kerry Mullis has said so, publicly. Medicine has made many major blunders in it's short history. Pellagra, Berri Berri, Thalidomide and many more. It has resisted, furiously, any criticisms of it's failings. It also turns out, PCP was not the cause of the pneumonia, so many died of during the early years. Once again, medicine has failed to admit, publicly, it was at fault. The fungus was PJP. A different bug all together. Have we ever been told...NO. When medicine stops being so defensive and admits it's failures, I for one may accept their science. At present it's full of holes.

Posted by: Keith Styles of Melbourne Australia 6:32pm February 07, 2007

If the Perth Group are such cranks, how is that the eminent Dr Gallo feels the need to weigh in now? After more than 20 years of "solid HIV science," refuting a couple of "self-professed experts" should be a piece of cake for just about anyone. And what, exactly, has Dr Gallo contributed in the last 20 years except a lot of predictions of HIV disaster that never came true? Why does anyone pay any attention to him at all?

Posted by: David Scott of San Francisco 4:20pm February 07, 2007

Jeff of Albany says that the NIH document doesn't explain how HIV leads to AIDS. In fact it lists 5 mechanisms by which HIV might lead to AIDS - all of which have evidence from scientific studies (many are in fact covered in my own review). http://www.niaid.nih.gov/factsheets/howhiv.htm I urge readers to review the primary literature if they want to find the truth, not the unsupported statements of random people on the internet! President Mbeki of South Africa did that a few years ago, but the government has since reversed its policy on HIV and AIDS. Mbeki once followed the Perth Group's advice, among others...one could argue that the years of delay cost tens of thousands of lives, and one wonders who we should ultimately blame for this waste of life...? I have no problem with debate, based on fact (which is why 5 different theories on AIDS pathogenesis are fine by me) but people like the PG are basically talking nonsense, if one takes the time to check their own references! For example, they state that Luc Montagnier failed to check whether the enzyme he detected in his original cultures of HIV was viral or cellular, and yet his original paper clearly includes all the controls to exclude this very possibility! My public and private interactions with the Perth Group over the years (yes, I have discussed all this with them, point-by-point) have led me to think they either have some kind of agenda to spread this misinformation or they lack basic skills in literature review - neither opinion is very flattering. I wonder if they are using this criminal case as just another springboard to get their views into the public domain (and it's working well, obviously)...

Posted by: Nick Bennett of Syracuse, NY, USA 12:56pm February 07, 2007

Bennet said that he has knowledge of HIV's ability to kill T-cells, well that's just amazing since anyone can visit the NIAID website and read "How HIV Causes AIDS" and see that the US government is not even making similar claims. There is still no definition of how HIV might kil T-cells or any kind of cells.

Posted by: Jeff Sullivan of Albany, NY 7:50am February 07, 2007

I am surprized you are saying that the Perth Group believes that desease doesn't exist. This is almost an insult to the Perth Group and it is totally missleading the reader since for example no body can say that cancer desease dosn't exist anybody can study diferent options on the cause of cancer. I suggest to change the introductory paragraph because it dosn't reflect the actual information.

Posted by: Delwere of France 9:29pm February 06, 2007

I have spent a number of years studying at my own pace natural, or alternative medicine. Not as a professional in the field, but as a researcher on the topic of nature, mankind and issues related to our health in the broadest sense. With regards to cancer, AIDS and many other chronic diseases, it appears to me that once main stream opinion is created, every attempt to second guess exisiting parameters are immediately considered a threat. This is unfortunate and leads to the overpowering position the pharmaceutical industry today has in controlling research and to a large extent training of medical professionals. It is in the pharmaceutical industrie's interest to create a steady and growing market to sell drugs and this does of course largely consist of long term chronically ill patients. In this sense the medical system is not necessarily objective to find the best cause and cure of illness. It is in this context, that I believe the Perth Groups has invited the scientific community for decades to proof that the HIV virus truly exists, and that it is the (single) cause of AIDS. Reading theories of many alternative practitioners including Dr. Hulda Clarke who wrote a book about HIV specifically, and many medical professionals who work with AIDS patients quite successfully with non mainstream methods - I am saddened that the dialogue among people who really understand the matter is elevated onto a dogmatic level. Ratherwould I like to see an exchange of views and knowledge among all walks of science. In my view there is sufficient information available about HIV and AIDS that at least in my mind allows very much room for people like the Perth Group to ask questions. Whether in the context of such an unfortunate lawsuit this debate can be at all fruitful remains my big question. I encourage the Perth Group to continue its work and for the established scientific community to take up the challenges as I understand they are presented by the Perth Group. And more so, I hope that the interest of the media on this topic and the discussions around it, stays alive well after the court has made its decision.

Posted by: Daniel Nikles of Sydney 4:42pm February 06, 2007

As a pharmacist with eighteen years experience dealing with the unknowing and mentally challenged followers of outmoded ideoligies ( in Lakemba, a hotbed of outmoded ideologies) I can confidently provide a simple explanation of all medical, bacterial and virological problems, It is quite simple." IT IS THE WILL OF ALLAH". beat that for the opinions of ratbags of all callings.

Posted by: keith evans of bella vista sydney australia 4:28pm February 06, 2007

I have just visited the website of the Perth Group and their arguments are utter drivel. In any other area they might be dismissed as harmless cranks, but by denying the HIV-AIDS link they are perpetuating dangerous and irresponsible beliefs. If their silly arguments persuade even one HIV infected person that 'safe sex' is not needed or that antiretroviral medciines are not worth taking then they are effectively party to manslaughter. I cannot believe they are still allowed to practise as doctors in Australia. They should be stripped of their medical licenses and declared permanently unfit to practise. And if they are still confident that HIV does not cause AIDS why don't they follow the example of their fellow West Australian, Prof Barry Marshall and infect themselves with the microbe they have such strong views about?

Posted by: Michael of Sydney 2:25pm February 06, 2007

The Perth Group have a history of mischaracterising the scientific literature and re-writing the basic fundamentals of biology to fit their own theories. One only has to do a google search to see this for themselves. Repeatedly saying the same thing over and over is not the same as successfully refuting the conventional way of thinking! One public rebuttal to the Perth Group I wrote (which incidentally explains the method of T cell loss in HIV infection) is here: http://aidsmyth.blogspot.com/2004/10/latest-bmj-rebuttal.html Another site to see the problems behind their way of thinking is http://www.aidstruth.org/debunking-denialist-myths.php I should also add for the mislead readers, that the announcement of HIV as the probable cause of AIDS was not made by Gallo prior to the research being published: Margaret Heckler made the annoucement in April 1984 after a journalist leaked the information from a publication in-press to the media. Gallo and Montagnier published finding HIV from AIDS/pre-AIDS patients in May 1983 and the dates of Gallo's next publication (May 4th 1984) were announced at the April 1984 conference - hardly a premature, unverified announcement of research findings. Gee, I wonder what other mistruths the AIDS dissidents might have told... http://www.aegis.org/news/mh/1984/MH840402.html http://www.aegis.org/news/nyt/1984/NYT840410.html Cheers Bennett

Posted by: Nick Bennett of Syracuse, NY, USA 11:43am February 06, 2007

First, Gallo did not discover AIDS...Gallo announced in 1984 that he had found the PROBABLE cause of AIDS...HIV, all without publishing any of the research before the announcement. AIDS is not a disease, it is a name given to 30 existing diseases, syndromes and disorders when they are associated with a compromised immune system and in some countries HIV does NOT have to be present for someone to have AIDS. The travesty is that this HIV=AIDS debate is still just that, a debate, with no scientific proof after 25 years. The travesty is that different countries test and define AIDS differently and not scientifically. The travesty is that peoples lives, like Andre Parenzee, are being ruined for personal and political gain by the HIV=AIDS=Death establishment. I just hope Gallo is exposed for the fraud that he is and for the thousands of lives he has ruined.

Posted by: Roger W. Ditrick of USA 9:31am February 06, 2007

II have to wonder why something that supposedly was decided years ago requires the testimony of none other than Robert Gallo himself as part of the defense. One only has to read "Science Fictions" by John Crewdson, to know that the entire scientific process that lead to the ┬┐discovery┬┐ that HIV causes AIDS, lead by none other than Robert Gallo, was a complete scientific travesty. ... (edit here) Whether AIDS exists or not, should not be the question; the question should be ┬┐ what causes AIDS? For anyone who cares to research this, the evidence that HIV does cause AIDS is poor at best - and that is being extremely kind. Like Eleni Papadopulos, I'd have sex with an HIV positive person (woman in my case) and would not think twice about it; that is how confident I am that Gallo et al are completely and utterly wrong. Dr. James Chin who oversaw AIDS for the UN recently came under attack because, he is indicating in his new book, that the risk of contacting AIDS in heterosexuals in North America and other developed countries, is extremely low - another nail in the "everyone at risk" mantra. I have little doubt that future will look not be kind to Robert Gallo and those who continue to sing the HIV = AIDS hymn. I can think of no finer example of science selling out.

Posted by: Mark Bartlett of Toronto, Canada 9:24am February 06, 2007

The story starts by saying the self-professed experts claim AIDS doesn't exist and continues to switch to HIV. I'm sure even the self-professed experts could tell you that they are two different things.

Posted by: Mind Your of 7:54am February 06, 2007

The Perth Group maintains that HIV has never been properly isolated and therefore has not been shown to exist. They do not doubt that people get ill from an immune-compromised system; they do say the cause is not HIV. I think after more than 25 years of AIDS, with no successful vaccine produced, no one cured and no clear mechanism of how T-cells (immune cells) are depleted identified, we should be looking at alternatives of how AIDS comes about.

Posted by: Mark Bizzell of 6:55am February 06, 2007

The first paragraph is a complete mischaracterization of the views of the Perth Group. "...who believe the disease does not exist." The Perth Group have never said AIDS does not exist. They have repeatedly said there are sick people and have put forward alternative mechanisms for these illnesses and also ways of treating such people. They have said the evidence said to prove HIV's existence does no such thing upon close scrutiny. I wish reporters would be able to get simple facts straight and stop reporting in such a biased way. Clearly, viewing the Perth Group's website, along with data from their published papers makes evident they don't claim AIDS does not exist. http://www.theperthgroup.com/whatargued.html Thank you, Chris

Posted by: Christopher Tyler of Seattle 4:27am February 06, 2007

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